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 Palms. Is survival enough? 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:52 pm
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Location: Hayward- S.F. Bay area Ca.
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
wow,Beautiful Eduard. As my small plot is about filled...I see myself doing the same thing with specimen potted plants that can never of course reach the sizes of in ground plants..but they are like my botanical pets all the same.
Pandanus,Plumeria obtusum. Forever to be potted. That's fine. How many plants IN THE TROPICS are always potted for lack of room? Plenty! Coconuts- to Adeniums on roof tops or balconys. Some,look to be just surviving..and owners are happy for that.

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Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:35 pm
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:59 pm
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Location: Loughborough, Leics, central UK
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
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Kev you will be amused to know I bought 25 spider plantlets from ebay which are growing on nicely. If I remember right it was your wife who said give it a go and they look pretty impressive in your garden as an edging so who would have thought! I just had to give it a go at only £7 for the lot. There are many variables as you say and I recently read about P.canariensis which like W.robusta get hardier as they age but that as well as the temps it is also wet roots that are an issue so chances can be improved by planting on slopes, adding gravel etc. It's all about budget for me so those two palms are 'quick' growing and satisfying to grow cheaply from seed to adult tree. My Canariensis germinated easily and are in the greenhouse but I will have to try the robusta again. I am interested by your Cooperii success as they are fast growing for ferns and plug plants are cheap as chips from Shady Plants online nursery. How do you manage it and is it unprotected in winter? Just bought a small T.Nova too - No patience and last of the big spenders so obviously ideally suited to this 


Tim nice to hear of your spider plants mine look like mush at the moment but come spring I bet they are back again.
I have grown P.canariensis before it got too big to protect and the centre rotted out as did my 3 Washingtonia.

The Cyathea cooperii was a £6 buy from Fibrex I had nothing to lose so I planted it.
It is placed slightly raised by about 2ft from a pathway no winter sun and dappled shade in summer.
I guess not ideal as these ferns can take sunshine so it grows slowly and sometimes any trunk showing dies but it as always grown back from below ground.
It does seem quite unique in as much as I planted one trunked fern I now have 2, after a particularly cold wet winter, which seems not to be what should happen with this Cyathea but there are some multi branching C.cooperii in Madeira another strange occurance.
My fern is wrapped in fibre glass insulation with a plastic greenhouse over it.
I have checked today and there is a fist sized crozier opening not good to be honest.

Sorry Mo for going off from your palmy question


Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:28 pm
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:59 pm
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Location: Loughborough, Leics, central UK
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
Eduard fabulous palms a credit to your skills you must have an understanding wife.....lol


Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:29 pm
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Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:08 pm
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Location: Dudley, West Midlands UK
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
Bringing the garden inside is good, they are absolutely stunning Eduard. I will now move my small Cyathea Australis into the greenhouse for the humidity as my conservatory is heated and we are making it into one room with the dinning room shortly. I like the idea of palms in there though. Slender and tall would work nicely. Thanks for posting the pics.

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Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:14 am
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Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
Thanks for the info on the cooperii Kev.

Quote:
I have grown P.canariensis before it got too big to protect and the centre rotted out as did my 3 Washingtonia.



So does this mean that the palms rotted from the top down e.g. from rain/snow or did the rot start at the bottom and go up the trunk? I presume top down since it did not happen when protected. I have seen pics of a Washie with a great big umbrella/parasol strapped to the trunk lol as well as a heating cable. I wonder if it is still going?

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Tim


Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:48 am
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Location: Loughborough, Leics, central UK
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
P.canariensis rotted from the centre where it had got wet and my covering was too tight around it not allowing air flow around the centre.
I do not do this now but just use rooves with little to no sides for good air circulation but when the palm is to big for a roof its then on its own


Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:46 am
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Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
I suppose the problem with palms is an ever growing spread of branches getting in the way of any type of feasible roof structure. On the other hand borderline tree ferns can have their leaves cut off so it's just the trunk to worry about. From what I understand then their need for humidity means you don't have the same issues with airflow. Sounds easy enough lol! I have a young W.filibusta in the greenhouse has anybody had any luck with these or are they just as fragile as their parents?

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Tim


Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:47 pm
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Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
Timedwards wrote:
I suppose the problem with palms is an ever growing spread of branches getting in the way of any type of feasible roof structure. On the other hand borderline tree ferns can have their leaves cut off so it's just the trunk to worry about. From what I understand then their need for humidity means you don't have the same issues with airflow. Sounds easy enough lol! I have a young W.filibusta in the greenhouse has anybody had any luck with these or are they just as fragile as their parents?


With palms sometimes they die from kindness. It's getting the protection right. Can be difficult. One of the borderline things I have is tree ferns. It's the only borderline plant I have quite a lot of. These are more protectable (well that was the premise I used to convince myself to purchase them). Rot by covering them is not a factor compared to palms. I've not protected them apart from stuffing fleece into the crown. Can I add that it's usually some member of the forum here showing graphs , pie charts and sending links from the daily express with coldest winter in 100 years, ice age upon us etc as the title that even gets me to do that.

I'm a spring chicken when it comes to some of the members here. They creak even when they type. If you go down the protection route and lets just say time is already not your friend a few things to consider....

If you have big palms for example in pots that you "can wheel in when the weather gets cold"....can you? will you want to when it's January and you have the flu? Will you have the strength in five years to do this? can you do this year in year out? do you really need that holiday in winter? after all it's all about growing it for the future. It only takes one lapse. If you can well bravo. Well done.

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Mo


Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:58 pm
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Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
Mmmmmm 52, bad back and already bent the bottom of greenhouse frame dragging in a plant in a rather large pot! Shame not to grow them on at least for a while though after buying & sowing. Perhaps when they grow too big sell on ebay lol. I have just seen a company on there selling P.Dactylifera for £55 a seedling. Apparently they have religious connotations, don't even ask :roll: Both Filibusta and Canariensis sound vaguely spiritual don't you think? :lol:

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Tim


Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:52 pm
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Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
themes wrote:

I'm a spring chicken when it comes to some of the members here. They creak even when they type. If you go down the protection route and lets just say time is already not your friend


Thanks Mo you know who your friends are. :roll:

John

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Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:33 pm
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Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
:D :D . you know I love you

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Mo


Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:56 pm
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Location: Heswall, Wirral, UK (Zone 9a)
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
I suspect we all want our plants to look good but there is a part of some of us that wants to see how far we can push the limits on the plants we like. Some of the most attractive plants and palms we wish we could grow are just out of reach but it doesn't stop us trying. Pushing our luck also tests our gardening skills with regard to siting and protection.

The Phoenix roebelenii in the centre of town is still alive after being planted out for almost 4 years.. I keep expecting it to die every year.. yet it doesn't.. and I'm in awe of that despite it looking a little tired sometimes


Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:13 am
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Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
John P wrote:
themes wrote:

I'm a spring chicken when it comes to some of the members here. They creak even when they type. If you go down the protection route and lets just say time is already not your friend


Thanks Mo you know who your friends are. :roll:

John


Phew.... I thought he was talking about this spring chicken here :lol:

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:51 am
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Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
It's interesting to see how other members go about things Stephen. I know you like to grow tender plants under the porch. What Kevin Spence can keep alive at his latitude is obscene. Andy Martin has it colder than me and still tries thing I would not dream of. Stan is going to grow an elusive mango if it kills him. Johnp trying palms regardless. Eduard does not let the cold dictate what he can grow. Guess I am the wet blanket

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Mo


Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:41 pm
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Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
themes wrote:
Guess I am the wet blanket



No, you're just saying what a lot of us are not admitting too on a forum focused on 'edginess'!

Ok, I'll fess up. I have lost a massive amount of time and money attempting impossible things for far too long and I am sick of it. I think a backyard nursery speaks it all. 25 years ago you could find coconut seedlings in my nursery, surrounded by Roystonea and rare lowland Dypsis seedlings. Now the only palms I propagate are Archontophoenix, Rhopalostylis, Howea and Dypsis baronii. In other words, fully hardy challenge-free palms. Yes I will still accept a rare palm if someone offers it to me (for free), but I'm not wasting time and money on something that is likely to die, and even more likely to look bad for it's entire life. All the other stuff in my nursery is hardy too; 10,000 Eucalyptus microcorys seedlings, Acacias, grafted avocados and Citrus. The only concession to "edginess" I have left is some papaya and mango plants, but these are destined for semi-protected cultivation, not open ground.

Don't feel alone Mo!

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Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:48 am
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