The team | View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:32 pm



Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
 Palms. Is survival enough? 
Author Message
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:42 am
Posts: 1741
Location: birmingham, UK
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
Thanks Ben. Wasn't sure if I was losing my mojo or being more realistic. I still get tempted when I see things on this forum but a sense of realism kicks in where before it was not there at all. Glad I am not alone in my thinking

_________________
Regards,

Mo


Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:09 am
Profile

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:52 pm
Posts: 7748
Location: Hayward- S.F. Bay area Ca.
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
themes wrote:
It's interesting to see how other members go about things Stephen. I know you like to grow tender plants under the porch. What Kevin Spence can keep alive at his latitude is obscene. Andy Martin has it colder than me and still tries thing I would not dream of. Stan is going to grow an elusive mango if it kills him. Johnp trying palms regardless. Eduard does not let the cold dictate what he can grow. Guess I am the wet blanket


I'm becoming a dry blanket. My 25 years ago idea of verdant bay area jungle is now...what combines looks and not much water more and more in my thinking. I think if a 10 year time lapse movie of my back yard for example was available?...you would see the plants "huddling" more and more...and the edges of the yard going dry and unwatered.
I planted a plum where I had thought of something jungle a few years ago. :shock:


Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:46 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:42 am
Posts: 1741
Location: birmingham, UK
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
I look at some of the plants you can grow enviously and I bet you look enviously when you see some lush green like Kev or Eduards for example and I bet they do the same. Do you have peninsula envy?

Has your changing conditions dictated your future gardening style?

_________________
Regards,

Mo


Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:51 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:08 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Dudley, West Midlands UK
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
A lot to be said for a dry blanket approach in my opinion:

Environmentally friendly
No watering worries when going on summer hols
Less worries with frost
Less time watering = more time sitting back and enjoying with your favourite tipple in the said garden

My soil is sandy and free draining and my Puya yakespala seeds are just poking through on the windowsill as I type. :D They will look nice with my Agaves.

I am a sucker though because the challenge of trying something so totally difficult and exotic/jungly is too exciting to ignore. My C.medullaris spores arrived and so has my peat moss! I have to admit I fancy building a crazy structure for the challenge but just one mind. With a bit of luck they won't germinate and I can give up on the crazy idea :lol:

_________________
Tim


Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:11 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:08 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Dudley, West Midlands UK
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
By the way, spotted this place last night whilst surfing (the internet). Great reviews and spectacular tree ferns. I think definitely worth a visit if down that way and close to Lost Gardens of Heligan and Eden Project too. If only we lived down that neck of the woods we would all be growing 'troublesome' exotics by the cart load.

http://www.thewaterwheel.co.uk/

_________________
Tim


Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:20 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 3:55 pm
Posts: 1646
Location: North Thames delta UK
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
I have a rather Darwinian approach to things - over the years I have tried most of the plants that have appealed to me, some of which are still with me, some not. Of those that died, some i will try again when space allows, some I won't bother with. And there are always new plants to test that have little track record of being grown as the coal face gets deeper. Each winter I will generally have new, untested plants.

But this is tempered by the fact that I have a relatively large garden - big enough for me, anyway - at around half an acre. The overwhelming majority of my plants are now tried and tested hardies so that, even after a nasty winter, I will no longer be looking at total devastation. Speaking of palms specifically, I have something like 30 trachies and a couple of dozen chamaerops that form the bulk of the palm planting. But, on top of that underlying framework, I also have a lot of more unusual, experimental plantings with something like two dozen taxa in all. If they die or look tatty so be it but there is plenty of other stuff to deflect the attention that is looking good. Same with all the other plant groups I have in my garden. It is by no means an instant thing, though - it has taken me 30 odd years of finding out what I can and can't grow to get here

In smaller gardens there seems to be a strong temptation to have one of everything so you can tick every box on the list but this is, I fear, to the detriment of aesthetics. But, as is often said, there are no hard and fast rules - gardens are extremely personal spaces and if someone gets the most pleasure from seeing 30 different species planted in the small back garden, even if it is only for a few years, then it is hard to criticize. Even if sometimes I do :D

_________________
visit my website - www.oasisdesigns.co.uk


Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:33 am
Profile

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:52 pm
Posts: 7748
Location: Hayward- S.F. Bay area Ca.
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
Mo,as summer gets going here- Green is such a great color since its absent from all the hills here in Hayward. But,around Oakland and Berkeley Hills,its UK lush as they are higher and catch much more rains. So,my southbay climate tends to look more like San Jose's. Again,microclimates.

I do know,that IF I had to move or so do it all over again? All this drought anxiety would win and I think I would go natives- not only for water savings- but I like the idea of something almost scientific,something that draws in wildlife.

Right now with 4 cats? I try to shoo away what I can. Save the birds,the lizards. Those kittens turned into something else.. I saved four kittens though from street life.
But,in conclusion :lol: ,I'm whole hog exotic plants for the duration. Things that LOOK like they like lots of water rather then NEED lots of water is the best I can do.


Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:14 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:46 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Middlesex, UK
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
Paul,

I tend to fall into the "1 each of 30 species" category.
Would rather do that than have say 30 Trachies. But that's just me. My garden is small. But if it was bigger, I would prefer to have plantings of 4or 5 of each species in a group.


Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:19 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:42 am
Posts: 1741
Location: birmingham, UK
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
Stan wrote:
Things that LOOK like they like lots of water rather then NEED lots of water is the best I can do.


This is my approach but with hardiness substituted for water. Plants that look exotic. ArtV, when I first started I was into the collection thing. There is no right or wrong approach I was just interested to see what makes other gardeners tick. You get so inspired by other gardens and gardeners and the what if it survives....

I've got the same approach I would say as Paul (minus the experience) I have about 30 -40 trachys now in a very small garden. I am getting more everygreen shrubs (rhododendrons) and I hope this will give more winter interest and also more protection. It does not mean I can not get seduced or infatuated with something tender. However I tend to only get 1's rather than 5 or 6. I've tried quite a lot and lost quite a lot and sort of got a yard stick of what will survive and what will not. Getting drawn into a cycle of trial to death and repeat is not the path I want to go down

Tim, I am glad It's a bit of a drive to Cornwall. It's like a safety blanket. I am obsessed with blankets :roll:

_________________
Regards,

Mo


Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:48 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:58 pm
Posts: 833
Location: Oxford UK
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
Mo... I have to be careful on how many Trachies I have in my garden. My one large T fortunei ~18 ft castes a large shadow around it which can block out sunlight to my arid plants. Last year I had to dig up Tetrapanax for the same reason. It was planted back of the border but decided it wanted to be front of the border. :roll:

_________________
Cold and frosty every Winter but who cares!!


Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:30 pm
Profile
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:06 pm
Posts: 4523
Location: Islington, London UK
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
What people are homing in upon is the balance between the plants-person/collector mindset and the place-maker mindset.

It isn't a pure duality. As others have already written on this thread, many of us move gradually from one to the other - usually in one direction - and one can find ways to combine the aims, as Paul and I, along with Kev and many others, have separately been finding out, over a very long period.

We're exploring the overlap between zone-pushing/hardiness, experimentation, collector-ism, garden design, place-making and, bluntly, the desire not to have one's garden full of specimens that look as if they are about to die. It's easier to be a happy gardener around happy plants.

There's a common journey here, but people make it in different ways and at different paces, and their local climates also have an influence. You start by trying all manner of stuff in a spate of experimentation. You don't know your site yet. Some plants die, some struggle, some thrive, some get out of hand. A new garden's ecosystem takes time to settle down.

As different spp. succeed or fail, you can try again with the failures or move on. Its a subtle judgment call, influenced by the desirability of the plant and your assessment of the reasons it succumbed. Eventually, most people get a feel for what will do well in their unique microclimate and plant more of that.

I do think there is a journey among most, not all, gardeners, from plant-collection to place-making. I want to walk around my very small plot and see happy plants. I want to walk between them and be around them. Forcing species to grow in unsuitable locations causes stress not only for the plants, but for the gardener.

There's a variety of Palms that I can grow here - not as wide as you would find in San Francisco or a properly frost-free location, but enough to fill my garden with as many Palms as I can accommodate. I tried two species of Archontophoenix, Nannorrhops, Syagrus (still alive in a pot), Laccospadix, Chamaedorea (thriving) and Arenga, along with Phoenix canariensis and two species of Butia. I found out which will grow here and which will not.

Experimentation presupposes failure. If you aren't prepared to experience failures, don't experiment.

_________________
51º33'07"N x 0º07'21"W
43m (142 feet) ASL


Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:44 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:37 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Redhill, Surrey, UK
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
David Matzdorf wrote:
What people are homing in upon is the balance between the plants-person/collector mindset and the place-maker mindset....
.


I'd say I started off in the latter category and then dallied with the former before finding myself firmly back in the latter.

I initially just hoped for a lovely garden, then a growing interest in particular plants and a sense of adventure kicked in before an overwhelming sense of reality - I garden in a frost pocket on heavy alkaline clay soil - made me come to my senses.

So, full circle to just hoping for a lovely garden.

_________________
Garden


Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:42 am
Profile

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:49 pm
Posts: 200
Location: arthog, gwynedd, wales
Post Re: Palms. Is survival enough?
stephenprudence wrote:
The Phoenix roebelenii in the centre of town is still alive after being planted out for almost 4 years.. I keep expecting it to die every year.. yet it doesn't.. and I'm in awe of that despite it looking a little tired sometimes


Just wait until we have another year like 2010, I'm sure it will go the same way that mine did in that winter. No I'm not a pessimist just a realist. :wink:

_________________
Change the face of the UK, plant at least one palm a year. Jason


Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:37 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 43 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: John P and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.