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 fern suggestion 
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:42 am
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Post Re: fern suggestion
Re: ferns I tried polypodium vulgare and asplenium scolopendrium. My last visit to pgp in 2013 Nick had some lovely looking Araiostegia unfortunately it was too big for the areas I wanted to stick them in. I was going to make an evesham run maybe may or june I could do fibrex and look for some plugs like A.Trichomanes I did remember seeing some a few years back. But I did spend time last year on this endeavour with no payback. Ferns would be my ideal choice. The only thing I have from this is a microscopic asplenium clinging to life. It looks awful. I like plants not only to survive but look healthy...at the moment it's not

I was under the impression aeoniums were hardy provided they had good drainage but again my knowledge is limited. Something to do with a combination of wet and cold killing. This winter has not been a real test cold wise but I was just thinking they died from wet more than cold but again I've not really read up on succulents. I will keep my eyes open regardless for David and your suggestions regarding these and try a combination of both this year so I have a fall back option.

Thanks

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Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:42 pm
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Post Re: fern suggestion
themes wrote:
I was under the impression aeoniums were hardy provided they had good drainage but again my knowledge is limited. Something to do with a combination of wet and cold killing...


A. arboreum will tolerate light frosts (I've had one easily survive being snowed upon), but I wouldn't expect any of them to be hardy in your location, even if they are kept dry. That's why I suggested overwintering rosettes indoors (or in a cold greenhouse) and re-rooting them (which is easy) in spring.

ChrisW4 and some knowledgeable-looking sources on the internet reckon that A. spathulatum is hardier than most Aeonium spp., which is why I am trying it. And A. 'Velour' is obviously hardy in Michael's unique garden on Cape Clear.

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Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:02 pm
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Post Re: fern suggestion
I did not click in my head the first post you made, David. I thought maybe it was overly conservative. My fault. Thanks for the clarification. I may try sempervivum instead. I am aiming for a garden that can look after itself. Well at least moving that way :oops:

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Mo


Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:34 pm
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Post Re: fern suggestion
A. spathulatum, for me, isn't as hardy as A. simsii (or, at least, the hybrid that passes for simsii in the UK trade). Or A. smithii, for that matter - which I kept alive for a few winters. A. sediforme is encouragingly alive after last winter in a south facing crevice, as is A. cuneatum, but I don't expect them to last forever. I've tried and lost pretty well all material I have been able to get my mitts on over the years from pretty much all species it is possible to get, including some material from the highest part of their natural range. It is fair to say, I think, that all the aeoniums that are impressively succulent and garden-worthy aren't hardy throughout most of the UK. The climate that seems to suit them best is the far southwest.

Mo - a lot of those ferns I mention and am growing I have seen growing in the Med. and places with hot sunny summers - they should cope with the midlands! It is a question of getting them established - the first year in particular they need a lot of fuss. But you have to seek them out - no point saying you want to do it then expect the more unusual plants to arrive on your doorstep. :)

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Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:25 am
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Post Re: fern suggestion
you're right paul. I'll pull my trousers up and update how I get a long later in the year hopefully

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Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:13 pm
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Post Re: fern suggestion
I would suggest this rather hardy Aenium : Aenium spathulathum subalpine form.
I was told the seeds of this form were collected at about 2000m high, probably in Tenerife island.
Once established it resseds well, that will save it during harsh Winters. It withstood at least minus 5°C and snow in this pot.
Probably one of the hardiest Aenium.
Unfortunatly the flower stalks aren't red as they seem to be in the usual form.


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Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:36 am
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Post Re: fern suggestion
I think growing succulents in the wall is a great idea - lots and lots of succulents are cold hardy, many can cope with water if kept warm, but cold + wet = mush. By planting in the wall, especially if the wall is out of the general direction that rain falls, then the succulents will be kept dry - not to mention that any excess moisture will quickly drain vertically. The roots will be well protected deep in the wall, and the thermal heat gain from the stone may add a degree or two of hardiness.

Some ideas:-

Completely hardy ideas
Sempervivum are great - plenty of forms, a big pot can be bought for peanuts, eat rosette broken off and buried into a crack
Orostachys - iwarenge, boehmeri 'Chinese (Dunce) hat', spinosa...
Rosularia - sempervivum, sempervivum subsp. glaucophyllum (great plant), sedoides, pallida, platiphylla etc. Rosularia elymaitica is a beautiful plant I'd love to source
Jovibarba - similar to Sempervivums but different in form
Sedum - there are loads, any DIY store will have plenty in the alpine section, but palmeri and praealtum are two you will have to look for (IMO the best)
Aloe aristata - I have never managed to kill one yet
Euphorbia - various

There are plenty of candidates with variable hardiness too - I have a number of echeverias, aloes, delosperma, lampranthus, oither aiozaceae outside. They've been there for a few years, those that were going to die have done by now (I simply don't have space to put them). Other ideas might be Agave pups (drainage issues will be solved - and its the natural way many (e.g. celsii/mitis) prefer to grow) or arid bromeliads - Dyckia, fascicularia offsets, deuterocohnia etc. If you want to know what has been successful and not for me out of this bunch, feel free to ask - I love those skulls and think this is an awesome idea, better more interesting than my exam revision! :D

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Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:03 pm
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Post Re: fern suggestion
Not sure if it has been mentioned yet but I have found maiden hair fern (Adiantum capillus-veneris) can grow in almost nothing as long as its kept wet until established. After established it can tolerate drying out and will attach and grow directly on rock/concrete. The light green leaflets contast the jet black stems beautifly. Mind also survive freezing conditions and if the leaves freeze, the rhizomes can survive much colder conditions and are tolerant of drying out. However young plant will not tolerate direct sun at all, mature colonys fair much better. Rabbits foot fern will also grow well in low soil but is not cold tolerant and fairly slow growing compared to lightning fast growth of Adiantum capillus-veneris. Hope this helped!


Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:51 pm
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Post Re: fern suggestion
Pierre wrote:
I would suggest this rather hardy Aenium : Aenium spathulathum subalpine form.
I was told the seeds of this form were collected at about 2000m high, probably in Tenerife island.
Once established it resseds well, that will save it during harsh Winters. It withstood at least minus 5°C and snow in this pot.
Probably one of the hardiest Aenium.
Unfortunatly the flower stalks aren't red as they seem to be in the usual form.


Image


Pierre - that is Aeonium simsii.

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Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:44 pm
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Post Re: fern suggestion
Thanks guys. This forum is great :D

I have plan A and plan B.

James, the list is fantastic thank you . I can peruse this if plan A fails (Paul's going to bring out the knuckle duster out of retirement :shock: )

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Mo


Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:51 pm
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Post Re: fern suggestion
Got to wipe all the blood off it first, Mo. Would hate for you to catch anything.

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Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:49 am
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Post Re: fern suggestion
Paul Spracklin wrote:

Mo - a lot of those ferns I mention and am growing I have seen growing in the Med. and places with hot sunny summers - they should cope with the midlands! It is a question of getting them established - the first year in particular they need a lot of fuss. But you have to seek them out - no point saying you want to do it then expect the more unusual plants to arrive on your doorstep. :)


Look how mossy the arch has become!!!!
I have persevered with ferns and after winter it looks encouraging. Will update in the summer as it's harder to keep them going when it's hot and dry. Ceterach is there (small), polypodium Vulgare, Asplenium trichomanes and a 6 or seven small ones that self seeded in the garden on moss rocks. Looking back on this thread how sad it is Steve Pope is no longer with us :cry:


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Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:09 pm
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Post Re: fern suggestion
GOULISH! Where's Indiana?

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Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:27 pm
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Post Re: fern suggestion
Excellent Mo thanks for updating those skulls are certainly looking the part now...nice work that man even the pictures are in focus! :lol:


Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:58 pm
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Post Re: fern suggestion
Fantastic - looks like it's been there 20 years, not 2! Do you do anything special to encourage the moss to grow so well?

With all the moss covering, it should be easier for ferns etc to get established. Maybe temporarily adding a couple of pots above the arch with mature ferns of the spp you want to grow, so they can shed their spores onto it, would work? Certainly Asplenium scolopendrium should do well, it seems a real calcerophile as well as doing well in parched spots. Also some of those eye sockets look ripe for popping some plants in too.


Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:48 pm
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